Being Honest is Not As Profitable

So over the past 18 months or so, I’ve been running a membership site at BringTheFresh.com – its a community for people interested in making a living via internet marketing. This basically means you create your own products (software, info-products, etc) and sell them online, or you create websites that sell other people’s products, as an affiliate.

We try our best to be unlike any other internet marketing site out there.

What I mean is:

1) We don’t lie.

This is VERY difficult to do as a marketer. Lies and hype are what this industry is built on. Preying on people’s hopes. Trying to influence them with psychology, to buy something they don’t need. To make them feel like they DO need it, and to convince them that if it doesn’t work, its THEIR fault.

The most prevalent lie is false statistics. These are fake results, or results gained by using a different method, such as selling the very “system” they are trying to convince you to buy. Commonly, someone will sell an ebook or marketing course, and do a “launch” for it, where they get a lot of friends and partners to promote it. They may make $100k, or even $1 million in just a few days (before gigantic refund rates). But no matter what, they net a nice payday.

Then with their next product, they will convince you that you can use their amazing new course or software they created, and it will make you $100k – $1 million dollars. They fail to mention that the only way they really make money is by selling “how to make money”, via product launches. This is frequently referred to “fake it til you make it”. Selling a course about how to make money online, by selling a course about how to make money online. Very rarely do these people actually make any money online by “doing” anything. They just teach you how to fake it like them.

Many marketers feel this is a grey area, and hang around others who do the same. That way they find solidarity, and feel less guilty about it. There is a common excuse that, “Hey the product has some good stuff in it, so lying to get them to buy it isn’t really a big deal.” Its kinda like if you bought a car that was said to get you 100 miles per gallon on “autopilot”, but after you buy it, you only get 10 miles/gallon. But hey, it does have some nice cupholders, leather seats, and navigation, so the salesman wasn’t really THAT shady was he?

Again, its just really tough to get someone to buy an online info-product or course without making it sound like the greatest course out there. The only guaranteed way to do that is by ACTUALLY making it the greatest course out there! And then relying on your customers to get the good word out for you.

That is a great way to do it, but it takes a lot of time & effort. And while we’ve spent 18 months doing this, others have launched 4 or 5 products during that time, and made millions of dollars. And many use fake names, so they are dis-associated with it. There are little groups of “players” and they all promote each others’ stuff no questions asked. They only care about numbers. They have zero interest in what the customer actually gets.

Right now Bring the Fresh converts pretty well, but not near as well as some of the latest launch products built on hype and lies of “push button” success. As a marketer I’m jealous of their numbers. As an empathetic person, I’m not.

When we work on our own sites, its very hard for us to balance what is hype and what is real, AND what is typical. We edit our sales letter almost daily, to try to find the sweet spot where we can tell the truth and optimize conversions at the same time. Its an ongoing, frustrating thing. Sometimes a few words can change everything. But many times the best words are misleading. And don’t get me started on false scarcity! (fake countdown timers, or “only 7 copies left”.)

For certain audiences we need to “dumb down” our approach. For others, that’s not gonna fly.

2) We don’t sell our customers down the river (filled with piranhas).

The bread and butter of most internet marketing products/courses is lead generation. Many times an offer can afford to pay $100 to acquire a $50 customer, because they are going to sell that customer’s data to a boiler room in Utah. The boiler room will pay 25%-35% of whatever money they make from the leads, and these guys are good at selling over the phone!

That boiler room is gonna call you with promises of making thousands of dollars a month by working with one of their “success coaches” on a weekly basis. Nevermind that your “success coach” has never made more than $15-$20/hr himself… as a success coach. And before that, he was a frustrated wannabe marketer like you. He knows a few catch-phrases like SEO, squeeze page, optimization, ROI, etc., so at least he sorta sounds like he knows what he’s talking about. But ask him for an example of one of his own sites. Then check it out on sites like Compete.com, and you’ll see that his only “success” is the paycheck he gets from his boss at the boiler room.

They promise everything from setting you up with a website, to helping with your taxes, to helping you setup a corporation. And charges go from $1k to $20k. The difference in price really only depends on how much money you have available on your credit card. If they ask and you say you have an $8k credit limit, well then the price of their service just happens to be $8k.

These coaching floors and boiler rooms are seeing more and more scrutiny, and some get taken down by the FTC. Others just disappear when leads dry up, and conveniently forget to pay commissions, or provide the service to the customer that they were paid for.

I know a lot about this sort of thing because as I’ve said before, I sold my leads to these coaching floors back in 2007. The money was great. The whole customer getting no value thing pretty much sucked.

Again, trying to compete with guys who use boiler rooms is tough. They typically see an increase of $100-$300 per customer when they sell their leads down the river. We don’t have that luxury, so we have to resort to other high quality offers of our own to try to make up the difference. These would include offering additional products or services we create, or those our friends have created.

But our competitors do this as well, in addition to selling leads, so we need to compete even smarter.


3) We don’t burn & churn our prospect and customer lists.

I see this so many times and believe it is the most short-sighted thing a marketer can do.

Its very important to build trust with your lists and provide them value. Yet many marketers mail them every day with the next shiny object they MUST buy. But mostly, this is the marketer paying back the guys who helped him do so well on his launch. Lots of guys won’t mail their list for you unless you promise to mail their next offer (whether its good or not). So after the launch, you have to hammer your list as a thank-you to all of the guys who mailed for you.

Its unsubscribe city, and reputation game over. (if you used your real name)

I get joint-venture offers daily, asking me to mail my list to someone’s next great converting product. But its always an appeal to my greed. They never tell me whats in it for my customers. Call me old fashioned but I want to know what it is, what it does, see some proof, and try it myself. Otherwise my list will hate me.

Even when I do end up promoting an offer I think will be good for people, I cover my ass by giving a bonus that will make it worth the customer’s while, even if the product ends up being a nightmare. And I let them keep the bonus even if they refund. I want my customers to stick around for 10 years, not 10 days.

———–

In summary, this post is just meant for food-for-thought. I’m no whistle-blower, and I don’t consider myself holier than thou, or someone who should judge others. I’m still tempted to this day to return to my grey area ways of 2007, but in the end I can’t do it. It just doesn’t feel right. I just have to live with a bit of a lighter wallet!

I’m still friends with many of the guys who do things the grey way. I think a lot of them are very bright, and I actually learn quite a bit from them. And some of them are just damn fun to hang out with!

If you find yourself in a similar situation, where you want to be known as one of the “good guys”, I’d love to hear from ya.

I’m open to working with anyone who has similar views, good products, real testimonials, and consistent results. I think a good group of like-minded individuals, with good products, and good intentions for the customer can make a difference, AND help us compete with everyone else!

Until next time,

Kelly

Posted: June 26th, 2011 under bring the fresh, rants.
Tags: affiliate marketing, bring the fresh, internet marketing, kelly felix

Comments

Comment from Andrew Hansen
June 27, 2011 at 1:25 am

Sick post Kelly.

My name’s Andrew – we met very briefly in DC in Feb. (with Todd, your BTF student killing it at Ogilvy)

I’ve been sharing the same feelings on my blog for a while but I think you touch on an important point in your headline:

In this game, you CAN be honest, but it makes it harder to be profitable. Inevitably. And that’s a sad reality.

If I want to tell people, “Look, here’s a method where you could realistically be earning 4 figures a month within a few months of working pretty hard at it”…

Who’s going to buy it when it’s next to the course that claims “You can make 5 figures a month in 1 months time and do almost NO work for it”…

REGARDLESS of which one is true and which one isn’t.

Being honest doesn’t convert, and we see examples of it every day.

I’m working on building my own little network of “real” marketers and I know a bunch of other guys are doing the same at the moment. Some with great results.

It seems possible that we can become more profitable by coming together and collectively being the lighthouse of trustworthiness in the sea of lies but… I suppose it remains to be seen.

Thanks for your thoughts mate.

Andrew

Comment from ted
June 27, 2011 at 2:03 am

great post, bless you! and you’re not alone , as far as I can see Mike Hill is another one of the good guys!

Comment from Sean Kaye
June 27, 2011 at 3:40 am

As a BTF member it’s a surprise to get any kind of offer at all from you and Mike. Having gotten to know you guys a bit when I do get something from you, I know it is valuable and I pay attention.

I don’t promote things to my list unless I buy the product I’m promoting. It’s getting a bit grey because I’m now getting free preview products on occasion.

You just have to run everything through your own ethics filter and hope that being a decent person will be enough to keep your reputation intact.

Comment from Ian Sherriff
June 27, 2011 at 4:52 am

That’s all very true but in the long term being honest is by far the best policy and you can sleep at night maybe with not quite as much money but you can sleep without worrying about Kama

Comment from Anonymouse Marketer
June 27, 2011 at 9:39 am

Yeah, I was contacted relentlessly by this group in Utah about selling leads from late 2006 until sometime in 2008. I know a couple guys who did it in the same volume I could have and looks like they are retired, traveling, and starting new businesses now. Personally, I am glad I did not even though I am pretty sure I would have been able to retire by now like these other guys. But guess what – I enjoy working and being in the trenches…doing the blue collar stuff that is required to run an online business. I would also probably be a raging alcoholic or worse because I do not need free time on my hands. I have no regrets and thanks for reinforcing that feeling.

Comment from bj93
June 27, 2011 at 1:39 pm

It “just doesn’t feel right” because it isn’t and those that do it …they don’t care what people think or feel about them anyway….but it’s not admiration, respect or anything good. Just having a lot of money doesn’t get you that, ask Paris Hilton.

Comment from Folusho
June 28, 2011 at 2:53 am

I made my first million in sales selling an ebook about how to make money online. After making six figures in my first 18 months, I thought about going into another market because this industry and the word scam are Siamese twins. I would dabble in other markets like weight loss and fitness and make money in them but I would never leave.

Finally in 2010 I sold my review sites including Federalreviews and decided to go full-time into coaching in this market. Why the change?

I realized that I could make more money without hype and actually really help people. People routinely pay us because we/I go out there and actually do what I teach.

We never teach something that we didn’t make money with and our customers are happy about that.

Lastly, when you’re selling services and products that cost thousands of dollars, telling the truth won’t hurt your sales, you’ll just end up selling different people.

Comment from Zach Milne
July 12, 2011 at 9:20 am

I HAVE to comment after reading your post. Kelly, I was one of those people who unfortunately was sold into a “coaching program” for thousands of dollars through Rich Jerk. It was my first IM product I had ever purchased. I am also a member of BTF (just so you know where I am coming from). I was a complete newbie, lied to, betrayed, and taken advantage of, and have spent years trying to forgive those people I spoke to on the phone. oh the regret I have had for years! anyways, It’s awesome to see that you have changed, and I will be a long term fan of whatever you have to offer as long as you maintain your integrity, because I know it will be supported with the real deal. Don’t waiver and fall victim! your life will be so much better… and every one else’s.

Comment from Nando
July 16, 2011 at 7:23 pm

Refreshing post Kelly. I’d like to draw a quick analogy that might possibly be useful.

My dad was a chain smoker for years while I was growing up and one day he just decided to give it up… cold turkey. That lasted about 8yrs. the only problem was he constantly hung out with people that smoked. So you know what eventually happened… and he’s still puffing til now.

You can have just as much success if not more around people who don’t smoke as you can with people who do.

Good guys go viral… for years. Become the standard that I and others have to measure up to.

To your continued success and enlightenment,
Nando

Comment from MaxR
July 20, 2011 at 7:50 pm

I found this post to be so refreshing, so brutaly honest.

Like you said, it’s food for thought. Yet at the same time it’s very hard for some markets to remain 100% whitehat (when it comes to internet practices) particularly if you want to see some results for your efforts.

Definitely a good post ! Thanks.
I’m happy to have subscribed to your RSS thread !

Comment from Kassi
July 25, 2011 at 10:34 pm

Yeah that’s what I’m talinkg about baby–nice work!

Comment from Jaundalynn
July 26, 2011 at 12:52 pm

Action reqruies knowledge, and now I can act!

Comment from Raza
August 1, 2011 at 8:02 am

God bless you Kelly.

I can’t stand people who sell “make money online” products without ever having had made money in a real niche.

I signed up for BTF because you revealed how you make money with the “kidney diet” site.

So now, you have the one thing that money can’t buy: Trust.

Raza

Comment from Bruno
January 2, 2012 at 1:16 pm

Thanks for your post, Kelly.
Very inspiring!
Feels good so see integrity still exists!
Bruno

Comment from Sean
April 24, 2012 at 5:28 pm

Hey Kelly,

One of my first experiences of Internet marketing over 2 years ago was me being scamed into thinking I could make hundreds and thousands of pounds on the internet by simply biulding a website and putting a few links to it. Although it is true you can make money like that without really knowing what you are doing in some cases it wasn’t with me. I had a coach show me how to build a website, the whole service cost me £500 upfront and another £2500 over 2 years. I made next to no money. The company went to court and was shut down so at least I didn’t have to pay all the installments. It was a hard lesson to learn when it comes to trusting people.

Fortunately I found Bring the fresh and although I haven’t made much money online yet, I feel like I am in safe hands. I have plenty of infomation to read and listen too and I have a friendly network of marketers on the forum I can ask for help when I need them. I would like to say thank you Kelly and Mike for being honest, I respect you both.

Sean.

Comment from Jim Macks
August 7, 2012 at 5:02 am

Yeah, good post. Not to point a finger at these IM’ers who post crap, that just repeatdly prey on noobs to the “make money online” niche, these guys are a joke and just push the same shit over and over to newcomers who don’t know anything..

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