Just Thoughts (and why most marketers probably won’t promote my stuff anymore)
I’ve been talking to a lot of customers and marketers lately, and there seems to be a common thread – people are STILL buying and selling FEAR & LIES. Big shock right?
The FTC may have made it a little more difficult – requiring marketers to jump through a few more hoops to continue using shady business practices, but it definitely continues. Sure some marketers made a bundle and got out before the crackdown, and somehow they are able to justify the money in their bank account to themselves, perhaps with an “every man for himself” type of view. Others are continuing to evolve in order to keep selling deceit – whether its by posting certain disclaimers, or moving their business offshore, or using loopholes in the law, or by rotating merchant accounts, staying one step ahead of government bodies, etc.
Heck, even big affiliate networks created their own in-house scam offers once they saw how lucrative it could be. Does acai berry ring a bell? Colon cleanse anyone? I actually purchased these products to see how far the scam went. It wasn’t pretty. Especially when I tried to refund before the continuity charges started.
I choose not to name individual names because I’m not here to cast stones at my fellow marketing sinners. These people know who they are, and you can easily find them yourself. A little tool called Google makes it really easy. You are likely on some of their lists as we speak.
But what happens to marketers who sell in a competitive mindset, through fear tactics, false scarcity, and rationalization, is that they are putting it out there to the world that they expect to live in that kind of world themselves. Where they too should live in fear. Where they too should expect to be sold with lies, and treated as sheep. Where they too should fear that their money will disappear any day now, when they are “found out”.
I can’t live that way. Not anymore.
Prior to 2008 I considered myself “driven” to compete with every other marketer out there to make the most money, so that when we had our big guru masterminds, I could get my ego stroked by my fellow snake oil salesmen, and feel like I was “the man”. And their approval would help me rationalize the selling practices any way I could. It was simply all about numbers to me, not value to the customer. Sure I thought my stuff was pretty good as far as ebooks go, and further from the “scammy” side than most. But I also knew less than 5% of my customers were successful. I would rationalize it by thinking those sub-5% were the only people who took action, as so many other marketers do. But this simply isn’t true. It’s just a cop-out.
After all, the people who bought the $10k coaching that I outsourced sure “took action”. A $10k committment is a HUGE “action”. And I simply got my $3k cut from the coaching floor and passed the responsibility onto them to fulfill upon their promises. Rarely did I check up on any of those individual customers or receive a glowing testimonial about the coaching. But I didn’t care. I rationalized it by convincing myself that if I wasn’t hearing complaints, then everything was ok. And I hid behind the character I had created (which interestingly enough, made it hard for me to figure out how to actually talk to my customers 1 on 1). But I figured that as far as scammy ebook stuff goes, I was one of the good guys. Looking back now, I was far from a good guy. I provided *some* value, but I could have done so much more. It seems most of the success stories came from people who ended up selling get-rich *secrets* themselves. It reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live clip – where an infomercial guy sells a book about “How to get rich by selling a book about how to get rich by selling a book”.
And many of those “success stories” are now people who sell with fear and live in fear.
Selling with scarcity tactics, such as “only 12 copies left”, or “only 5 minutes left”, or “re-opening the doors for a short time” … it’s all garbage marketing. Even if the statement happens to be true, why limit perfectly abundant information?
And here’s an insight for you: at guru masterminds, do you think we talked about how wonderful our customers were? I wish that were the case.
Looking back… how dare I talk sh*t about my customers. As if I owned them and was doing them some huge favor. It’s disgusting. And not only was there customer-bashing, but we literally complained about how new rules constantly made it tougher for us to sell people using bullsh*t tactics. Oh, woe-is-me, I’m only making $1 mil a month now instead of the $2 mil a month I could have made if the stupid FTC wouldn’t have made me start telling the truth a *little* more.
What’s really obscene is that I am still on many lists as a super affiliate, so I get the insider emails during launches. BUT, I also get the emails that the prospects get. And it’s appalling at how contradictory the 2 emails are. One email tells the prospect how great everything is, how much they will be taken care of. And the other email brags about easy money, how well its converting, how many copies have *really* been sold, when the miraculous re-opening will happen, and what prizes are involved for marketers who *pound* their lists. Zero mention of the value to the customer, other than *perceived value*, otherwise known as the *thud* factor. The 2 contradictory emails alone could probably get so many marketers in hot water, and I don’t know if they realize it because they are caught up in their own hype machine.
I realize this blog post probably won’t do me any favors as far as getting my fellow marketers to eventually promote my “Bring the Fresh” video series, but in the end, maybe that’s a good thing.
But I digress. I guess this turned into more of a rant – but to be clear I am not singling out anyone but myself. And I’d like to put it out there for you to ponder however you want. I’d like to recommend one thing to you – Be suspicious.
Be suspicious of push-button solutions. Be suspicious of products with names like “Underground grim reaper autopilot gold bar instant millionaire wealth generator.” Be suspicious of anything that says “earn up to 8 billion dollars per second”. I know it all seems like a no-brainer but people are actually still buying this stuff. Be suspicious of product launches. Be suspicious of cut and paste emails you receive from 42 different people. Be suspicious of anything that “everyone is talking about”. Be suspicious of anything with a bonus or “downsell”.
Be suspicious of ME. Be suspicious of this post! And finally, be suspicious of lines. One of the craziest things I’ve realized is that people love lines. I’m not kidding. If you go somewhere and you see a line, don’t people typically just get in that line without asking questions? And isn’t that what a launch waiting list is? Or a huge launch thread on Warrior Forum? They are digital lines.
And to be clear, what I mean by suspicious is not necessarily that it’s a scam… I just mean that the trend seems to indicate there’s a high percentage chance that it is. Do your own investigating and come to your own conclusions.
Oh, and one more thing – be suspicious of a P.S. in an email.
Maybe I’m way off topic at this point, whatever the topic is, but I felt some of these things had to be said.
Good luck out there,
Kelly
P.S. Buy lots of stuff from me.
Posted: February 22nd, 2010 under rants.
Tags: hunky pictures of brad pitt, i like avocados, kelly felix, sex lies and videotape
Comments
Comment from Mike Long
February 22, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Something that Kelly was mentioning to me yesterday that could have easily gone in this post is how often folks seem to curse at Google or YouTube or eBay or whatever for “changing the rules” making it harder. (He did mention the FTC, but I think they are in a different category.)
The point is that Google is trying to produce a better product for their customers: better search results…which is more or less the same business YouTube, Facebook and eBay are in…or at least should be in.
So why would we “game” Google? Why try to hoodwink YouTube?
I’ll tell you how I got 3.4 million views on YouTube: by giving 3.4 million viewers exactly what they were looking for…
…That said, I’m not going to break my arm patting myself on the back!
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
That’s one of the ideas from the New Testament that totally humbled me.
I am currently far from without sin…
…And when it comes to the kinds of “scammy” gimmicks this post covers, I’ll say this: I have sold with fear.
And guess what?
The money I collected came with psychological fear stamped on every bill.
The saying goes you get what you give. How true.
Somebody told Kelly that they like the “angle” we were taking with Bring the Fresh…and we didn’t know whether it was a compliment or an insult.
Either way, Bring the Fresh isn’t a clever way for us to be “the man” at some guru mastermind while still pulling the same old BS.
It’s a path to redemption that Kelly and I have started walking…
…And the last time I checked folks with no sin need no redemption, so much like Kelly, my mini-rant here isn’t aimed at some so-called competitor.
Its about me and my search for repentance.
There’s a reason “us vs. them” is the most popular marketing campaign in history.
From wars to genocide to sports teams our culture often seems infested with this idea.
The number one quest in my life after years competing, first as a wrestler and football player, then as a Magic: the Gathering pro card player, and then as a marketer, where I was all about competition, is for redemption.
I want to, by my actions, not by cheap talk be done with “Us vs. Them.”
My personal path to redemption has nothing to do with besting a perceived “them” any more.
David Mills, Kelly and my dear friend, once pointed out to me that sexual slavery, where men tie drugged women to beds and rape them and sell them, like in the movie “Taken” is real and happens today.
If I’m going to have a human enemy, it’s going to be somebody like that.
Outside of that I have no interest in the word “them.”
I want “them” out of my life and out of my vocabulary…at least as it refers to the “us vs them” idea.
I’m just worried about the “us” part.
Love,
Mike Long
P.S. “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?” Matthew 7:3-4.
Tags: car surfing ala Teen Wolf, chopping onions till I cry, mike long, The Master and Margarita.
Comment from Chris
February 22, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Wow, thank you to Kelly and Mike for posting such honesty! I could feel the sincerity reading your words.
By changing the way you two guys now market, it may not change the entire IM industry straight away but you’ve thrown that pebble into the pond which creates ripples that gradually flow out 
Comment from John
February 22, 2010 at 6:56 pm
While it is better then marketing with fear, this whole post is a cleaver marketing tactic in its own. Bad guy gone good who can now help you with his new product. This whole post is geared towards getting people to trust YOU and not others because you are calling then out on their marketing tactics.
Comment from admin
February 22, 2010 at 7:51 pm
@Chris You are absolutely right. Thanks for your message.
@John I would love people to trust me. You are correct in that. But I’d prefer to earn it. That is why the info on my blog is free, and many have chosen to do great things with it. My post felt more like a cleansing to me personally, rather than a marketing tactic, but I accept your view and appreciate you taking the time to read and comment.
Comment from wakkaoaka
February 22, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Brilliant positioning and competitive advantage Kelly, even if it wasnt a marketing tactic. (instant karma i suppose, honesty rewarded with trust)
If you earn a persons trust, and they join bring the fresh then I think you deserve it.
“I’ll tell you how I got 3.4 million views on YouTube: by giving 3.4 million viewers exactly what they were looking for…” <– that's how internet marketing should be, finding a group of people who have a want/need/demand for something, then sell them what they want/need/demand.
Comment from wakkaoaka
February 22, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Brilliant positioning and competitive advantage Kelly 
, even if it wasnt a marketing tactic. (instant karma i suppose, honesty rewarded with trust)
If you earn a persons trust, and they join bring the fresh then I think you deserve it.
“I’ll tell you how I got 3.4 million views on YouTube: by giving 3.4 million viewers exactly what they were looking for…” <– that's how internet marketing should be, finding a group of people who have a want/need/demand for something, then sell them what they want/need/demand.
Comment from Ansub Chaudry
February 22, 2010 at 10:43 pm
I’ve experienced & observed the same thing that Kelly has posted.
If you go to any stupid IM forums, everybody in their naively believes that the reason why they aren’t “successful” or “banking” it on clickbank or some other stupid f$%& affiliate network is because they aren’t taking “action”…
I actually thought really hard about this back in like 6-8 months and one major thing that struck me is a lot of marketers have a huge ego with very little backbone to back any of it up…
They often think that internet marketing is the world’s best career. They believe everything is magic & they often try to sell magic to other people… You know? The idea that you load a site, put in some words telling people to buy, putting in a order button… viola… once that thing is on google… You can now turn off the computer & go shopping… No dealing with customers – that stuff is not for “players”
I’m still young and bit inexperienced… but I can look you with a straight face & tell you… That type of attitude towards anything in life is form of insanity & it’s a cult-like control.
It’s horrible way to want to live just for the sake of getting money. It’s get old and I mean really old…
One thing I learned is stop going after the money… Go after a PURPOSE in life. Create something which you can look back on & you can see that you experienced more than just some money and OTHERS have experienced something great as a result of your work.
Let me ask you a question…
Would it make any sense if Brad Pitt suddenly decided that he wants to write an ebook on how to get rich or he wants to start affiliate marketing a bunch of products? Of course it wouldn’t!
I learned that you shouldn’t just do something just because their is money involved and maybe some fame or popularity… you should do something because it enriches not only your life but the lives of other people…
During the summer of 2009, I actually got out of the hell that many marketers (newbies included) leave themselves in… It’s this sort of “aimlessness goals”… where you have people just setting up goals which has no real sense. It’s hard to explain but a lot of times I see people trying to do things which they “think” is right for them but not what actually they came into this world to do.
I hope you don’t mind if I get a little spiritual, but I believe every person is brought to this world with something to complete, something to enrich, something to build upon and then when they leave- that enrichment stays with people as well as themselves…
The goals that a lot of people not just marketers- but generally people set-up for themselves are not really goals which are going to truly enrich – it may seem like they are being enriched or they are being productive or they are being happy or they are “successful”…
One thing I learned is to pretend as if I just suddenly died and then look back at what I’m currently aiming for … and see if what I’ve done carries any sort of enrichment, any sort of great mark which other people can aspire too…
In April, 2009… I got a lot more spiritual. I pretty much stopped this “hankie pankie” IM stuff and I took a real hard look at life, reason for living, why we are here, what goals mean etc…
I started mediating, seeking answers from a higher self, finding purpose and a reason for being…I started working out, exploring life and becoming more “whole” as a person…
I started clearing out any sort of BS in my life.
And you know what? I can’t be any more grateful for the huge favor I did for myself.
I really learned a lot. I still have a lot more to learn from… but I’ve learned so much by just shutting out BS…
What do I mean by BS?
1 – Promoting a bunch of affiliate offers because they pay $10,000 for a email submit
2 – Entering a new “niche” just because so and so said so
3- Starting a new business b/c of “demand”
4- Doing some “twitter cash”
5 – Doing some “cpa brute force lead generator”
Am I still into internet marketing? Yes… but I NO LONGER carry the label “internet marketer”…
I don’t market stuff just for the sake of marketing. My life’s purpose isn’t about trying to set-up a bunch of businesses.
I’ve learned to stop seeing endless possibilities but to see WHAT IS RIGHT for ME…
I no longer am interested in promoting or starting a business if it means NOTHING to me…
The 3 businesses that I’m now running actually personally means something to me on a spiritual level. They carry a great purpose, with a real vision that means more than money. They aren’t just some “internet marketing” project. They actually relate to my life, my purpose, my philosophy and they are actually “something” which really means “something”.
Again, it’s hard to explain…And they funny part of it is, they all inter-connect, overlap and relate to one another. It’s like I’ve created a not just a goal but a defined purpose on all parts of my life.
Contributions to people who really helped me get out of the endless rut of “aimlessness goals”
-Jose silva
-Eben Pagan
-Gary Halbert
-Michel Fortin
-John Cartlon
-Napoleon Hill
-Bill Harris
-Morry Zelcovich
-Mind Movies, Ryan
-Dan Kennedy
-Myself
And finally Kelly. Some of his blog posts on the “scammy” RJ site actually helped me create some sort of vision. I actually never ever got involved in “make money”. I maybe his only student that actually promoted a niche which I personally felt really passionate about and which still carries a very deep meaning to me. The other 2 business I recently got involved with build upon my passion indirectly & they also carry some meaning towards my life.
Concluding points:
Success in life is never determined by your career or how much money you make. It’s always determined by how you do things and why you do them. We all have to leave the face of this earth. Therefore, we shouldn’t ever get “stuck” into… But we should always make sure we grow from it before we get out of it.
PS. Your blog post felt like you literally read my mind. Because this was exactly the same way I felt 6-8 months back. Don’t worry, I’ll be praying for you & you will soon see my blessings in your life.
Comment from Chris
February 23, 2010 at 5:28 am
LLAMF @ the PS
If nothing else I’ll give you that you’re funny. That’s for sure.
I say “if nothing else” because everything you spoke of makes me “be suspicious” of everything these days including this current blog and promotion. But I have to admit I’ve gotten great value from the free stuff… so I’ll be joining the membership soon. Then the proof will be in the pudding.
Comment from Mike Long
February 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@Chris: you’re most welcome. I greatly appreciate your post because while it’s not particularly our intention to change anything other than our lives and the lives of a few folks who might find value in what we’re doing, the idea of inspiring others is…well inspiring. =)
@John: I’ll tell you one thing, if you really see us as “bad guys” then you’re very wise indeed to wait for our actions to convict or vindicate us. Either way I appreciate your candor, as I’m sure you’re not the only person who wonders in this age of disturbing “tone deafness” not just from marketers but all the way to D.C., if this is all yet another spin tactic cleverly designed to drop our clients off in the same place they started (with their wallets a bit lighter.) Again I prefer to affirm my motives by my actions, not with a bunch of: “blah blah blah,” so I don’t mind waiting for individuals to decide for themselves…
@wakkoaaka: Thank you very much… High praise indeed. Don’t get me wrong, the views that we’ve gotten on YouTube have been a huge boon for David Mills and I because we’ve added around 85,000 double opted in subscribers because of them and built a million dollar business with those leads…but I’m very proud of that business because we’ve actually got more testimonials than customers in great part because of those free videos, and because so many of our customers have testified again and again of their ever increasing success with high value romantic relationships.
@Ansub: Thanks for sharing your soul searching. It’s something that Kelly and I have been doing a lot of since we became friends and it’s most welcome here, as is the appreciation that you’ve offered to those whom you feel have helped you along the way. Maybe we “read your mind” because a lot of people feel that way today, and not just because of the “tone deafness” I mentioned earlier, but also because despite the negatives, we really do live in a world of surprising opportunity for abundance. Creative tension is a wonderful thing.
@Chris: A day never goes by that Kelly doesn’t make me cackle=) Also, thanks for your healthy skepticism, and for the praise on the value of the free material Kelly’s shared here. We look forward to meeting you on the other side…
Comment from Steve J
February 24, 2010 at 12:53 am
Shut down the Rich Jerk site. Actions speak louder than words, as you’ve acknowledged.
Comment from Tiga
February 24, 2010 at 8:05 am
…and be suspicious of internet marketers “coming clean”
You’re using a classic persuasion technique here and you know it.
Kelly as long as you’re in the internet marketing niche you have NO credibility. Why not start a real business selling a tangible product that people really need and want. Maybe even a brick and mortar business. For as long as you selling crap like you’re selling you will always be a snake oil salesman no matter how you repackage it.
Lead by example son. And pick your friends and partners wisely.
Those that can do, DO.(and you don’t find them selling marketing BS on the internet) Those that can’t do, TEACH. (look in the mirror)
Comment from admin
February 24, 2010 at 10:39 am
@steve I am not the legal domain owner of the rich jerk website, therefore I do not have the authority to shut it down. Other than that, I legally cannot comment in more detail.
I do find it interesting that you believe if I had the power to take down the rich jerk website, and did so, I would be making my “actions speak louder than words”. But what you’re really saying is that by taking YOUR desired action, THAT would speak louder than words.
I tend to think a lot of the free material on this blog could be considered “actionable”. And the success of the people here is another example of “action”.
I still believe the Rich Jerk website is definitely worth checking out, if nothing else as a case study to do a little reverse engineering on. Why was it so successful? How could it be done differently? I think there are a few nuggets of gold in the ebook if I do say so myself, and for 10 bucks it’s not gonna hit the wallet too hard. And if you don’t agree, Clickbank’s refund policy is notoriously lax, so there ya go.
@tiga I agree with you – Be suspicious of ME and any marketers “coming clean”… I love that suspicion and it’s well deserved. I also love that you mentioned to choose your partners and friends wisely. Truer words cannot be spoken. I’ve learned the hard way in the past, but I’m very happy with my current circle of partners and friends. I really appreciate your concern.
I do however disagree on a few points –
1) “Kelly as long as you’re in the internet marketing niche you have NO credibility.”
I believe this is a false statement. I’ve been collecting testimonials for weeks that say otherwise. I will be releasing them shortly. For the people’s lives that I’ve helped change, my credibility is not in question. A very common NLP technique is to put someone on the defensive by implying that YOU speak for everyone. But I’m fairly certain not everyone reading this would agree with you.
I’m also not sure I understand how a brick & mortar store is any more credible than a web property. Is it because you can touch it? I’d love to hear more about your opinion on this.
2) “Those that can do, DO. Those that can’t do, TEACH.”
I partially agree with this. I remember back when I was an actor, my acting teachers seemed like fantastic actors. I always wondered why they didn’t just get big parts in movies instead of teaching. I think it’s because teaching was easier for them to find success with, and that let me down a bit.
That is why I don’t just “teach” or “do”. I do both. The affiliate sites I build for myself are what I consider “doing”. And teaching people how I make them is the fun part, especially when I hear that someone took one of my ideas to a whole new level and changed their family’s lives forever.
3) “Selling the crap that you’re selling”.
Are you a Bring the Fresh member? If so, and you consider it crap, I’d love to hear your feedback as to how we can make it better for you. Feel free to email me with your order # or speak up in the Yahoo Group!
In closing, I appreciate your suspicion!
Comment from Stephen
February 24, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Hello Kelly!
I’d like to chime in briefly regarding the topic you’ve brought up in this blog post.
In your post, you say…
“It was simply all about numbers to me, not value to the customer. Sure I thought my stuff was pretty good as far as ebooks go, and further from the ’scammy’ side than most. But I also knew less than 5% of my customers were successful.”
I can relate to what you’re trying to say, and I “get” the sentiment you’re trying to convey. You genuinely strike me as a nice guy, too. The thing is, you’re being a bit unfair to yourself in some ways.
Here’s what I mean.
Generally speaking, there are three types of people who would have purchased the ‘RJ’ branded materials.
1) Raw newbies who were brand new to the game and knew nothing.
2) Professional newbies who were Internet marketing hobbyists that really enjoyed (and still enjoy) the “hope rush” that they got when they bought something new.
3) Experienced marketers studying your moves and/or seeking to pick up a couple of tips and tricks that they might not have been implementing within their marketing operations.
I don’t care what anyone says, the ‘RJ’ stuff was EXTREMELY useful to anyone who would have just been getting started. You presented a lot of timeless strategic information that is CRITICAL for a lot of raw newbies to understand. Tactics and techniques are always changing. The core strategic insights you shared in the ‘RJ’ eBook are largely the same today as they were then.
On the other side of the spectrum, the experienced marketers extracted one of three things…
1) confirmation that strategies and techniques that they were already using had been validated by someone else,
2) a few new tips or techniques they weren’t aware of or had forgotten about, and perhaps most important,
3) a glimpse into how one might structure a marketing organization to place less reliance on an individual “guru” and to instead position a brand/logo/character to serve that role instead. That makes selling the enterprise somewhat easier down the road.
This brings us to the mercurial middle… the people I often refer to as Internet marketing hobbyists (or professional newbies).
They interact with other hobbyists on popular Internet marketing message forums. Many seek an escape from long boring days. Excitement, entertainment, and something new that has the potential to change their lives… isn’t that what every Internet marketing hobbyist wants?
It’s no different than a good friend of mine who is really into “dieting” — she has countless books, taps, DVDs, etc… and she buys a copy of Woman’s World magazine whenever a new one is released because the cover shows a “new” diet that she wants to try. Ironically, her weight has remained fairly constant as long as I’ve known her (and I don’t really even think she’s overweight at all). And you know what? That’s okay! She truly LOVES chasing new fad diets and being on the cutting edge of all that stuff. It’s her hobby.
When you created ‘RJ’, you gave Internet marketing hobbyists excitement, entertainment, controversy… it was a dream come true for anyone who was tired of the “same old stuff” and wanted something new and different. Seriously, the ‘RJ’ video series (fragments of which are still on YouTube) was unlike anything ever seen before (or since).
The bottom line is that the ‘RJ’ eBook contained TRULY USEFUL information… but that’s NOT ultimately what the Internet marking hobbyist (professional newbie) was really looking for. They wanted EXACTLY what you gave them — an amazing show.
After a while, it’s hard to respect hobbyists — leading to some of what you described in your post (bad mouthing them, etc). We both agree, badmouthing customers isn’t cool… but why would we do that?
I think it’s because it gets aggravating when we see Internet marketing hobbyists whine and complain about how they’re poor, broke, disillusioned, and… here’s the big one… feel “cheated” by the products they’ve bought. Some people said that about the ‘RJ’ eBook. Okay, fair enough. So did they get a refund? No… they chose to whine and complain and play the role of victim. ClickBank gives a refund if you sneeze or cough loudly enough.
After a while, it gets to the point where it’s easy to start disliking these people. Just give me your money and go away already… it’s easy to slip into the mindset of trying to milk these hobbyists dry of every last penny. Because if it’s not you, it’ll be someone else. So why shouldn’t it be you? Again, not a cool mindset per se, but it’s understandable where it can come from.
Here’s the bottom line… we are all where we *want* to be. At some point people have to be responsible for their own lives, their own decisions, and their own actions. While it’s understandable we might all sometimes have regrets about certain aspects of the way we do business — we’re all (presumably) adults. It’s not like we’re taking candy from children.
Anyway… so much for this being a brief comment.
Comment from Dylan Jones
February 25, 2010 at 10:40 am
Great discussion going on here, and I wanted to add some of thoughts…
I doesn’t matter if your an IM guru, a high school teacher, a nurse, or race car driver… It all comes down to… Live in service to others!
All of the “jobs” I mentioned above provide a service to others. I bring this up because the rich jerk ebook was created to SERVE others in online marketing.
Sure, after awhile the “serve” may have went to “self-serve” but the underlying trade for money was a service (knowledge).
I am a graphic designer, I am in the IM area and I love helping my clients. Designing their sites, providing a service for them. People can see my service, and they can do something with it in the virtual world…
Kelly & Mike provide a service of their knowledge of what they know a TON about. They also help people and have impact on someones business. It may not be as obvious as site design, but its still there.
Since they provide info, and insights. Its easy for on lookers to see “no value” or exchange of service going on because they aren’t the one who really wants to accept it and see the value.
Someone could say that I am the worst designer ever, and I just ruin sites and make them less useful… or someone could say that I am awesome, and help increase sites response.
But thats the service I provide. I love what I do, and I will always help people as much as I can.
Thats what life is all about, anyways. Live in service to others!
Rock on,
- the DUB!
Comment from self-publishing children’s book
February 26, 2010 at 6:20 am
Thanks for promoting the concept that the name of the game in marketing SHOULD be providing value to your customers, rather than putting dollars in the bank account. Not that there is anything wrong with trying to do both.
I can tell you that I recently received an email telling me that my ebook had been “invaluable” to what the purchaser had accomplished. Such a comment may not pay my mortgage, but it sure made my day! And yes, it will get added to my testimonials which should eventually create more sales.
So it sounds like you are going to stop promoting crap? Are you also planning on trying to provide more value or are you just getting out of the IM business?
Comment from Ken Thompson
February 26, 2010 at 6:21 am
Hi Kelly, I came here from a post in the Warrior Forum. I applaud your post and the courage it took to write it. What you wrote about is something I’ve been aware of for over 10 years of being online.
I believe it is possible to be an honest marketer in the IM niche. So the thing to do is just start doing it, and eventually people will see for themselves. If you’re honest and always straight, people will come to know the truth.
I believe walking the path of truth tends to be a little more difficult. But over time it becomes less difficult. It’s actually an easier way to live because one’s mind is clear, no inner conflicts about having done the right thing.
Also, if you live and market according to truth – you will attract those who also live the same way.
You’ve really done a good thing, here.
I’d be happy to do business with you.
Best regards,
Ken
Comment from Ron
February 26, 2010 at 6:41 am
First off…hats off to Kelly
Secondly…judging from the comments, Kelly’s post has struck quite the nerve with everyone.
There is karma out there folks and those that practice in a malicious way will be paid back. At least Kelly and Mike are now walking the redemption line.
Its all about content, wanting people to succeed and get the freedom they deserve.
Comment from WD Mino
February 26, 2010 at 8:36 am
Hi Kelly,
I gotta tell ya this is refreshing. and so so sad at the same time.
I hate the garbage tactics used by oh so many in our industry honesty seems rare and that is pretty sad.
I appreciate what you have said and I hope that any of the guru types that happen along here actually open their eyes and take the same path.All this stuff does is give a black eye to our industry and make it harder for honest folks to push through.
Also. For anyone who may happen along here and attack Kelly as one has done that I saw better to keep quiet about some things then make yourself look like a fool Kelly had the balls to stand up and be counted so Enough said not too many would do such a thing
Best of success to you
-WD
Comment from John
February 26, 2010 at 9:58 am
This post fucking kicks arse – about time someone had the guts to say it.
Comment from Matt Wadsworth
February 26, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Great post Kelly, and fantastic site as well.
There will always be b.S. in the IM niche, as there will be in forex trading, penny stocks, gambling, weight-loss, or any market where people are desperate for a solution.
Well done for standing out from the croud, it takes courage.
Just for your info, I’m a blind marketer (as in can’t see) and have built a 7 figure business in less than 2 years.
I’ve done this by:
putting the customer first
bringing value to the market place
solving a genuine problem
being “straight” with people’s expectations
being determined
working hard
not following the croud.
seeing difficulties as a challenge rather than an obstacle
I totally share the sentiments of this blog…
Feel free to check out what I’m doing over at
http://www.MattWadsworth.com
Keep moving forward
Matt
Comment from Chris Tatro
February 26, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Kelly and Mike,
Thanks for reinforcing the value of tags on a post.
Seriously though, anyone who thinks this is an “angle” has perceptual problems or is terminally cynical. You guys have no real need to “redeem” yourselves but the fact that you feel that you do speaks volumes.
Thanks for everything, and where is the affiliate link?
Comment from Tiffany Dow
February 27, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Kelly I wanted to scream while reading this. Is it a good message? YES! But like you said – be suspicious of you and I will.
Ghostwriting for all the gurus for so many years and being on the phone listening to them do exactly what you said – laugh about scamming people – it made me become a marketer myself who actually considers part of my ROI the feeling I get from helping people. Contrary to what people believe, it’s NOT ALLLLLLL about money. Part of it is, sure – we all have goals – but not 100%.
One big guru gave me a seminar audio to create a product from and his portion about outsourcing – he was making fun of ME and telling them how to rip off ghostwriters like me. He’d forgotten that was in there. That asshole.
I’m glad you warned people. I hope you walk the walk now and I hope with your status you lead more marketers into ethical tactics from here on out. Redeem yourself for the scummy practices you did in the past.
Comment from Elena
February 27, 2010 at 3:29 pm
I’m not really sure what I think of this…
It makes me tremendously sad that people trust you (and others like you) are trying to really help them, when really you are just helping yourself to their wallet and leaving them out to dry!
If you really believe or have remorse for any of this scamming you basically say is now deplorable (maybe I am reading into it, maybe you still think it’s okay), what are you doing to make restitution?
Just curious.
Hope you really have made adjustments to the way you see your “customers’. You wouldn’t be anywhere without them.
Comment from admin
February 27, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Thanks everyone for your comments. I hung myself out to dry a bit, and it appears lots of people were more than willing to get the broom out and beat me a little… LOL. Especially on Warrior Forum!
No hard feelings here though. I feel good about my decision to begin a new chapter, and I also still feel good about the value I’ve provided over the years via the RJ ebook itself, and the RJ forum – I’ve heard so many good stories about JV’s developed there.
It’s the outsourced coaching decision that irks me, and the email promotions of a few things that turned out to go widely unfulfilled, such as Stompernet and Pipeline Profits. I feel like I stuck my nose out for those guys and they just didn’t deliver on their promises. And that reflects poorly on me. But ultimately, it was my decision to promote, and I take responsiblity for that. I regret those promotions now, but unfortunately no one could have predicted the outcome.
I also regret that the coaching, whether it was a $1k plan or all the way up to a $10k plan, may not have been worth it. I simply do not know, and perhaps I never will. I was told that buyers would receive in-depth coaching from Terry Dean’s materials, but ultimately I don’t exactly know what was delivered. That’s because the deals that most marketers like myself strike with outsourced coaching work like this:
Someone buys a low dollar info-product/ebook. The customer is then referred to as a “lead”. Leads are sent weekly to telemarketing rooms in Vegas or Utah. The telemarketers call the leads and sell coaching packages anywhere from $1k-$10k. Coaching buyers are then sent to a 3rd party coaching fulfillment center that does calls and webinars with the customer. What I feel guilty about is passing the customer off to 2 organizations I didn’t control – the telemarketing firm and the coaching firm. I literally have no idea if the coaching was worth the cost. I made several trips out to the telemarketing floors to make sure they weren’t promising the world, but while the cat’s away, who knows what they said. I only know I got 30% of the sale, and anyone could refund at any time, and many did.
But most of all, I deeply regret taking my customers for granted, and poking fun of them with other big-shot marketers. My ego was out of control, and that disgusts me.
In hindsight I wish I would have kept everything in-house, or on a tight leash with quality control.
I wish I would have put a stop to the corporate greed that occurred with all of the owners/partners, myself included.
And I wish I would have valued my customers a LOT more.
I’m still very proud of the RJ brand I created. I entertained, and helped thousands of people better their lives financially.
But for the past 2 years I’ve been in a different place. I haven’t accepted one dime from any RJ sales in the past 2 years.
And I’ve been working extremely hard on my latest project “Bring the Fresh”, because all I want to do is make sure that it over-delivers tremendous value. So far, so good.
I’m not looking to cleanse my soul here. I’m not looking for praise, or to stir up controversy, or to strategically “position” myself as some great guy. I’d just like to publicly apologize to anyone who lost money based on my actions, and I’d be more than happy to provide free lifetime access to BringTheFresh.com for anyone who got coaching, Stompernet, or Pipeline through RJ (whether or not you think it was a good value). Simply send me an email at kellyandmike (at) bringthefresh.com
Say what you will. Be suspicious. Be mad. Be happy. Be anything you want. I feel lucky that anybody even WANTS to read what I write.
I definitely have a lot of work to do on myself, and I’m going to continue doing that my entire life.
Best,
Kelly
Comment from Paul
February 27, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Honesty my ass! A leopard never changes its spots! And the word ’sheep’ springs to mind too after reading some of the replies above. Most online marketers are like the majority of politicians…..they can’t be trusted…period!
Comment from Poppie
February 27, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Thanks Guys,
I see the growth happening here & I applaud you for having the guts & courage to step out & announce it.
Transformation begins in an area of deepest desire first, rippling out to other areas of ones life.
I have never bought anything from Rich Jerk, as I did not like the “vibes” coming from the site…BUT, one thing I did see was a very talented kid who one day would mature & “come of age” & wind up with a great business.
The skills were all there, the knowledge & so on.
He just needed grooming in customer service & respect for people in general…something some younger people are not always aware of.
Some of us need educating in marketing, goals, traffic generation etc, he was no different.
I think you are on the right track boys & hats of to both of you…It seems you are a team?
I don’t know why people are crying foul as they do have common sense to judge these things for them selves & so they must accept responsibility for their own actions…be they stupid decisions or otherwise. It’s how we learn.
Regardless of what you are selling in future, it behooves each one of us to check out the claims ourselves, before doing anything.
Good luck in your spiritual development boys.
Kindest Regards,
Poppie
Comment from Nando
February 27, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Wow,
What happened? Did somebody just find out they have only 6 months to live?
Comment from Terry Loving
February 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Wow! Thank you all for the burst of fresh air! The discussion provides a ton of thoughtful ponderings – I am grateful that Internet Marketing business folk are real people willing to honestly exchange ideas. I was recently experiencing a perception of a drop in quality as more marketers get in for the Fast buck – there is a lot of hype and useless products floating out there. And then there are the ones in true integrity – willing to help – offering excellent products – and in full integrity. Lets continue to raise the bar and not settle for the sleezy practices of some – make sure our offerings are true and clean – build the relationships that matter and spread the desire to over deliver with quality products.
Thanks again for the honesty in the sharing.
Terry Loving
http://lovingvisions.com
Small Business Internet Marketing Solutions
Comment from Magnus
February 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm
This is what a call a great post. I do appreciate your courage. Online marketing is supposed to the best thing that happened to mankind, where somebody can start a business without spending arm and leg, but somehow some people turned into exploitation medium. Thanks for the great post.
Comment from Buck
February 27, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Interesting turn you two are taking. You quoted the New Testament, do you believe it, the New Testament? Your quote means nothing if you don’t.
I learned to be suspicious early on. I have read lots of material, and even picked up many of the previously marketed “systems” so well bragged about and read them thoroughly, only to see just what you are saying here. Almost without exception, there is no program that will take a beginner step-by-step from beginning to big profit. The beginners must constantly stop and learn the side-bars that were not included in order to continue.
Here is a question I have been asking for a year, but I always get the same answer: “If someone follows your program step-by-step for 6 months, or longer, spending 2-4 hours a day 5 days a week, just what could reasonably be expected in terms of expenses and income?”
Any school teacher will know that answer for his/her class, but no one, not one internet marketing guru has ever deviated from the standard answer — “it all depends on you!”
Your confession here summarizes what I have begun believing about so called schools and academies who can’t answer the question. When I have tried to contact the gurus, I tend to be forwarded to “join the risk free trial and bring this up in the forum”
Do you have what it takes to answer this question?
You two have been in this program for years. I know you are ‘coming clean’ and trust that you are, but do you at least care enough about your customers to get this information?
I have just about decided that I may be the first to try, but funny thing is, I am not interested in selling to the IM niche. I just want to make an income to have the lifestyle I want for my family.
Think about this question, and please, give an honest answer. I really want to hear it.
Buck
Trackback from uberVU – social comments
February 27, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by LaurenCubed: Wow RT @SocialNetDaily: OMG, IM Guru Admitted He’s a Scammer! http://ow.ly/1c2g3 A Must-Read!…
Comment from Mike Long
February 27, 2010 at 9:02 pm
@Paul: I hope for your sake that you don’t really believe that.
@Poppie: Thank you very much! Kelly and I are a bit of a team =) We have some ideas about value and how the Internet can help folks share it, and we think that some folks will enjoy and profit from what we have to say. And again, we’re not looking for anybody to go out on a limb taking our word for anything…please feel free to watch our actions and let them speak for us =)
@Nando: What, is there something wrong with living like you’re dying? 
@Terry: Thanks! And we feel very grateful for our opportunity to share what we’ve learned, and what we’re currently learning… More than anything we want to be a breath of fresh air, but not just today…tomorrow and next week…and next year… Again that’s our intention.
This Blog is one of the places folks can check up on us and see how they think we’re doing with affirming our intentions with actions and results.
@Magnus: You’re most welcome. And I agree that it was a great post by Kelly… And I find the comments and the community built around it to be equally great.
I’ll let one secret out of the bag: Kelly has approved every single comment on this Blog, completely unedited. That’s because we want to foster a real conversation because we we’re sick and tired of the “tone deafness” , not just from the gurus but extending to state houses all around America and all the way to Capital Hill.
@Buck: There’s nothing that I’ve read more than the New Testament, and nothing I’ve learned more from. As in: I do everything in my power that I know of to follow Jesus Christ’s philosophy. So yes, I believe in Jesus Christ. Kelly can speak for himself, but I’ll tell you that when I (frequently) quote parables and share stories from the New Testament, he’s always a welcome, engaging and eager audience.
As far as your question about Bring the Fresh is concerned, I have to say that I reject your premise that if you go into a school that a teacher can tell you how long you will learn and how much money you will make. I spent tens of thousands of dollars collecting a history degree at James Madison University and it has made me zero money. When entrepreneurs start businesses, at least in America, their earnings are neither guaranteed, nor are they capped.
This may not sound satisfying to you but the trade off that we make when we quit a job to become an entrepreneur is that we no longer get to trade time directly for a guarantee of a set amount of money.
That said, there’s no reason for you to quit your job before you are making that comfortable income.
And if you feel like you need some free training to get you started, then here’s one of the places to look:
http://kellyfelix.com/just-do-this/
This is Kelly’s post about his SEO method. He’s currently using it have gotten over 100,000 visitors to his site that he reveals in Bring the Fresh full disclosure absolutely free in the last 30-days. It took him about 3-months of planning to create that site from scratch, and then another 3-months for the traffic to really kick in.
Several of our Bring the Fresh customers and I have also used the same method in the last month to start getting rankings…
…For highly competitive terms…one of our customers just reported in our Yahoo Group how in the last 3-weeks he’s gotten a #3 ranking for a search term with 22,900,000 competing pages…and now he’s sitting right behind the Wall Street Journal and one of Google’s own pages eyeing the #1 slot. (I have several sites on the first page of Google for highly competitive terms, all that I started in the last 30-days, and I have disclosed all of them to our Bring the Fresh Full Disclosure customers. My cost for my sites has been the cost of server space and the cost of registering about a dozen domain names on GoDaddy.)
If you look at the “Just do this” post and say to yourself: “not for me” or if you just don’t get the right feeling about what we’re doing for *any* reason, then please HOLD OFF.
We’re not shutting down enrollment. This isn’t a scarcity based launch with a dealine. If you change your mind next week, next month, or next year, we’ll still be here. And in the meantime we plan to keep sharing new content, both inside of BTF, here and to our subscribers. So if you don’t buy now and then change your mind later, it’s no big deal.
In any learning situation there will be value the teacher provides, and value the student provides.
In Bring the Fresh, Kelly and I offer instruction, an over the shoulder approach where folks can see the actual business moves we’re currently making, and we offer a community and a culture built for encouraging success.
Our customers provide their own time, ingenuity, their own unique strengths and passion…and they mix with Kelly and I to make up what is turning into an extraordinary community in our Yahoo Group.
If you feel my answer is a “cop out” then I’d advise you not to join at this time because the reservations that you feel will make it so much more difficult for you to enjoy the value that we provide, and it will make it so much more of an uphill climb for you to provide the value required of you to build the business that you’ve talked about in your post.
Either way thank you, Buck, and than you to everyone who has helped kindle this extraordinary community that’s building around this Blog and around this whole Bring the Fresh situation!
Comment from Mike
February 28, 2010 at 3:33 am
I know for a fact that several extremely powerful corporates with billions of dollars are lobbying the MAJOR search engines to upgrade their algorythms to be able to detect and de-list one page sales letter websites with LARGE IN YOUR FACE font sizes, over the top language and false claims–this should have been done years ago–once the search engines have de-listed and SLAPPED all these ‘C’l'O’w'N’ Men and Women then the HONEST guys will be making the big money by truely caring for customers and the snake oil sales people will be getting biiten thanks to their degenerate way of thinking. In my MBA course we were told to VALUE customers and ADD value on every level of the business.
Can’t wait till Google, Yahoo, Bing et al., upgrade their algorythms and to detect one page sales letter sites and de-list the scammers!!!
Awesome TRUTHFUL and HONEST blog post–I never knew YOU were the Rich Jerk–you seem down to earth.
Comment from Hoffmann
February 28, 2010 at 9:49 am
If the things said in your post are true… I commend you … but I’m not too sure. I’ve seen many ploys in the 10 years I’ve been online.
I really do hope it’s true…
Michelle
Comment from greg cryns
February 28, 2010 at 9:51 am
Excuse me, but this whole think stinks.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
You really lost your creditibility with your previous subscribers and buyers.
But so effen what? You have millions coming in who will never know what happened. Millions of new buyers.
At least now you have to work harder.
Comment from Bob
February 28, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Hi Kelly, thanks for sharing this. The past few weeks I have been also thinking of adding a post about the newest tactic that these scum have. They dont even respect our time they now, play videos where you cant even fast forward or rewind, just pause.
I don’t know about anyone else but I just close it out because I know that 99% of these videos are 30 to 60 minutes long and they Think that we need them and we will watch.
I’m just curious please post if you do or don’t watch the entire crap.
Comment from Ansub Chaudry
February 28, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Well I think that the “poking fun” part is okay as long as you are providing the customers their money’s worth.
Of course, in your case, as you already stated – you didn’t provide much value so I guess the poking fun part wasn’t a acceptable marketing practice.
I guess there’s a difference between simply teasing vs. outright obnoxious and rude behavior bordering immorality.
I think if you provide a lot of value & service than the teasing would be tolerated, maybe even enjoyed. Otherwise if their is no value – it maybe unethical.
I remember you used to say that the teasing was just marketing… I think it may have carried over to your ego
Anyway, Kelly…
Everyone makes mistakes. I believe bad karma doesn’t harm you if you own up to it and realize that it was wrong.
Comment from lawton chiles
February 28, 2010 at 3:10 pm
WOW- this post blew me away. Kelly, your humility here is awesome. Mike, I love the fact that you are seeing the real wisdom of the Bible…and not just for the sake of having a “new system” but really taking Jesus’s words to heart.
His life was about service and sacrifice, not about some new “perfect day” system all about money and “things”. This industry is rife with selfish motives and selfish people, and it needs to be called out.
Great post.
-Lawton
Comment from alex
February 28, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I had seen one of your posts long long time ago and had decided not to have to do anything with you or your kind of marketing. In fact I felt ony someone with a real poor sense of self esteem would continue to deal with you.
Good for you and good for your customers if you are turning over a new leaf.
I have always been and will be suspicious of you!
Comment from Mike Long
March 1, 2010 at 1:53 am
Hey everyone!
Wow this Blog post has taken on a life of it’s own! Not just here but all over the net in forums, email blasts, tweets, other blogs…
So I decided to add some clarity that i think will help everyone, especially since a lot of the new replies coming in are from folks new to our little community here who might not have as much context on what this community is all about…
First off, I am Kelly’s business partner, so I am biased. But Kelly’s earned my trust through years of honesty, value and integrity, which I have witnessed first hand.
I also want to thank all of the folks on both sides of the debate here for the passion that’s gone into each post because I don’t think there’s a single person here posting out of spite…
As in: I sense the palatable desire here for industry wide integrity, and Kelly and I both applaud that motive.
So even if you think I might be jumping on what you’ve said as you read my lengthy post here, it’s NOT because I’m trying to humiliate anybody.
The primary distinction that I thought might have been missed is that this:
Kelly’s Blog post on his site is about an evolution in the way he does business and nothing more…
Some folks might have, again understandably, gotten the impression that since Kelly was in a very reflective place when he wrote that Blog post, that he was admitting to rubbing his hands together greedily like Monty Burns, the iconic corrupt nuclear power plant owner from “the Simpsons”, and cruelly extorting helpless customers for every penny they were worth with an evil cackle, and then clubbing baby seals for fun or whatever
The reality of the situation, and I’m going to give you my take from what I personally witnessed behind the scenes, was that because of the Rich Jerk persona there was necessarily a layer of outsourcers or employees between Kelly and many of his customers, preventing him from getting live feedback on how they were performing ESPECIALLY when it came to his coaching floors and also somewhat with JVs.
(Though of course that’s always somewhat the case with JVs…the best you can do is carefully research the offer and then follow up with your customers to find out if they are getting results…and nobody I ever met researched as much as Kelly, and I personally worked with hundreds of top affiliates…then after the research and the promotion, you make a decision as to whether to promote again or not based on those results. Kelly did this and the times when his customers weren’t getting value he refused to promote again…even when threatened by his former JV partners with refusal to pay Kelly’s outstanding affiliate commissions…if you read between the lines here you’ll know who I’m talking about, and you’ll remember that unlike most top affiliates Kelly avoided repeating his errors with unscrupulous JVs.)
As far as the coaching floors were concerned, I personally traveled to Las Vegas with Kelly several times as he spot checked the phone sales floors to make sure that they weren’t turning into “Boiler Room” situations…and he repeatedly secret shopped the sales floors as well (oddly enough he would make up a fake order and insert a phony name along with his cell number so that the salesman wouldn’t know, and he would listen to their “pitch”).
When he found abuse, just like with the JV situation, he would fire the phone coaching sales floor and start from scratch.
That said, as he mentioned in his Blog post, Kelly was still highly dissatisfied with the outcome in too many cases, and was constantly bothered by his lack of direct 1-on-1 feedback with his customers.
He was totally sure of the value of his Rich Jerk ebook because he had personally seen so much success from it both in his Rich Jerk forum and from customers he spoke with one on one. But he started to realize that the disconnect between himself and the coaching situation BECAUSE the Internet really is such a golden opportunity for folks to build legitimate organized businesses, and there was no reason not to take things to the next level…
While Kelly didn’t have authority to “pull the plug” or call all of the shots with the Rich Jerk situation, because there were other investors, who together could assert majority control over the business, he did work very hard to assure quality…and in a move that I greatly admired, when he realized that there wasn’t any way for him to bring things up to the standards that he envisioned, he silently bowed out of major involvement and began anew with a blank slate to help evolve the way Internet marketing is taught…including creating a personal one-on-one situation between himself and his new clients.
This evolution with Bring the Fresh removed all of the barriers for Kelly to get raw feedback from his customers, and put him in a position to provide not only encouragement but an “over the shoulder” walkthrough of the live businesses that he’s currently building for his customers.
We’re now very proud of the success that our new customers have had…for instance one of our newest BTF customers now boasts the top ranking for a search term that has 22,800,000 pages and an average PPC price of $5…after 3 weeks with us!
(And that’s after the same customer bought a prominent $800 per month SEO training program that only allowed him to pick up a few longtail keyword terms.)
Kelly is very proud for the success that his Rich Jerk customers had, and all of the appreciation he’s gotten because of it.
On a candid note it’s been a joy for me to be Kelly’s close friend and business partner.
Kelly’s not just a smart and funny business mind, but he’s one of the best friends I’ve ever had, and he’s a loving and playful father to two joy-filled kids.
He’s also the most raw and honest person I’ve ever known…
…The first time I ever talked to him at a party that somehow turned into a JV mastermind 5 years ago, I asked him how big his list was…and he said “Who cares, everyone lies anyway.”
I was hooked on the spot!
…But that said, it’s very understandable to me when some folks mistake his raw honesty as being the actions of a man on death row who only has a short time to live and wants to make his peace! But I’ve actually found his honesty to be so refreshing once you get to know him that now I can’t imagine life without it.
(Besides, what’s wrong with living like you were dying?)
One thing for folks who haven’t gotten to know Kelly just yet:
He’s got a sharp wit and he’s a true sarcastic.
As in: the Rich Jerk was a joke. Kelly didn’t think he was better than anybody else. He was poking fun at all of the Tom Vu clones out there on the Internet.
Undoubtedly some folks will read this post and still feel riled up, and I accept and respect that.
Kelly’s sense of humor isn’t for everyone…and everyone who ends up loving Kelly as I love him doesn’t necessarily start off that way.
I also think that it’s hard for some folks to accept that Kelly’s Blog really is “off the cuff” and that he didn’t plan any of it, including the post that has so many folks feelin’ froggy here today =)
My point is that what individuals are seeing with Kelly is an evolution and nothing more.
We’ve been in business online for a collective 20-years, which is pretty good for a couple of guys in their early 30s, and as we experience new things we try to integrate them into our business and into our lives…
A final example has nothing to do with online marketing, but with diet:
I know one guy who springs back and forth between eating loads of sweets and potato chips and sodas and such, and trying to go 100% raw food with diets…and unfortunately when he tells me he’s on a diet I kind of get the feeling in the back of my head “here we go again.”
Kelly, by contrast, has always taken relatively good care in his diet ever since his early days as an actor.
But he also continues to evolve his diet slightly every year towards more raw veggies, fresher more humane food, and cutting down on processed foods with lots of salt, sugar and the like.
The result is that when Kelly brings up a new recipe he’d like to try out, it usually lands on a plate in front of me within a few days…
That’s a good parallel for the way Kelly operates in business, and it’s one of the big reasons why I’ve chosen to partner with him and not with other folks who have offered to work with me.
The last thing I’ll say is that, in the interests of keeping things down to a dull roar so folks can zero in on the many other valuable tasks for building their business, like generating traffic through the free SEO methods that Kelly’s shared in his earlier posts on this Blog, I invite you to write me or call me personally if you have questions or concerns because while I’ll certainly answer you in public here, it might help a bit to keep everyone focused on providing value to their customers in the online businesses they are creating with the help the members of the extraordinary community that’s crystalized here.
=)
It’s all happening,
Mike Long
858-699-2747
Comment from thriftgirl62
March 8, 2010 at 6:39 am
Nobody is perfect. People are not born to be what they become. It’s learned behavior over a period of time. Scarcity is taught by big business and the government. It’s the basic law of supply & demand and turns into profit.
People learn what they see and the truth is what you believe. Nobody wants to listen to the Bible’s Truth, the kind that sets you free. People don’t want to hear the truth so they believe far-fetched partial truths and hope and have faith in what they WANT to hear.
If young people opened their 2 ears and listened, history would not keep repeating itself. Again, that’s not what we WANT.
If you want something, you do whatever it takes. Not even money will make a person do something he doesn’t want to do unless forced to. Then he’s not going to do a very good job and he’ll always be looking for a way out or an excuse not to do it.
The reason he doesn’t want to do something is because he doesn’t like it, therefore he’s not going to enjoy it and he’ll never be good at it. What a horrible life to get up to each day. What’s the answer?
Don’t do what don’t like. Refuse it until you find what you like. If you don’t you’re going to be broke and unhappy so you might as well keep looking.
The programs being sold work – almost every one of them works for someone. The one who likes the what it’s telling the to do.
Don’t chase money programs or you’ll never have any. Chase whatever you enjoy because you’ll be good at it and money will follow when you’re not expecting it.
The Rich Jerk wasn’t based on anyone rich – not even close. Most of these so-called internet millionaires will never even see a 100 grand in their lifetime. it’s funny watching them and you can tell who’s who and they don’t even know how silly they look and sound. How do I know that? Follow me on Twitter @thriftgirl62 and you’ll see.
You really need to see this if you haven’t already. Will’s Wisdom: http://www.productioncarcare.com/shop/custom.aspx?recid=17
Comment from Donahue
April 15, 2010 at 10:07 am
whoo! What a great discussion – but now I don’t know what to think? But while you alude to several common scams like scarcity and false limits, you don’t quite reach the level of whistle-blower and just flat-out give people examples of specific campaigns that use these tactics. Come on, pissoff some these gurus. Tell tales, Expose. You can do it in such a way that protects you from a defamation suit. Heck, I can tell you how to do it. But come on, cross that line. Thats why some of these people are challenging your sincerity and saying yours is just another line of BS.
Come on! “You can dooo it!”
Comment from Jim
April 15, 2010 at 2:16 pm
You guys really are a bunch of windbags! You just love to hear yourself talk, and you have a genius for making the banal and evident sound profound.
Honesty is a human norm. No one should be congratulated for it, any more than you congratulate someone for not being a murderer or a rapist. To a very large extent, marketing, like its cousin, advertising, is an illicit activity, for the simple reason that it results to all kinds of subterfuges, all kinds of appeals to human vulnerability and even vice–like greed, lust, etc. That is why the public feels a kind of instinctive disgust and dislike of the huckster, the salesman, the hot-shot businessman–they know that much of that success is due to being at least something of a sharpster or a con man. People who actually bring things of real value to a marketplace are rare. And even them, they are disagreeable in many cases, because they are forced to toot their own horns. And how sublime are topics like “traffic” anyway? Its ridiculous the way people go on and on and gush about all this.
Ah well–rant over.
Comment from Vaibhav
April 15, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Great post Kelly!
I never bought your RJ ebook but I got it from some of my “sources” for FREE and they gave it to me because they thought it was a useless piece of crap they wasted their money on BUT when I read your ebook, I found they were absolutely wrong. There was so much info in your ebook for a newbie like me, I came to know things I didn’t knew existed! We all need to start somewhere right? And your ebook was the one that led me into the internet marketing scene! And finally ended up buying your ebook
However, since I found value in your ebook, I thought the other ebooks would also help me learn something new BUT its been years and I am still reading ebooks that preach the age-old marketing gimmicks, same old rehashed stuff, nothing new! I wasted my money on them but yea I was smart enough to ask for a refund through Clickbank, I guess the ones who just whine and complain are non-action oriented and painstakingly lazy people who don’t even wanna make the effort to get their OWN money back! Comeon if a person can’t make the extra effort to get his OWN money back, how can we expect him to make the effort to increase his/her earnings lol ) So it was not all your fault all the way, there are people in this world who want or invite others to take advantage of them and that my friend is a very “REAL” fact! You can’t help people like them because they are looking to find excuses for the lack of happiness, success, and wealth in their lives! They need someone to blame their miseries on and internet marketers fit the bill very well! They don’t wanna do the work but they wanna get the money and that is never gonna happen! Until and unless people like them understand that making money is not easy and there is no magic bullet that will make them piles of cash instantly, several new IM Guru wannabes will keep taking advantage of them! There has to be an end to people’s unrealistic expectations and your post, my friend, makes that point very clear! Kudos to you for that
And I feel sorry for those who didn’t get your point and just considered it as an public apology. I know you are sorry for what you did or happened to do in the past but thats not the only point here right? No matter what the world says, you’ve got a lifetime admirer in me. My heart says you are really trying to make a difference here and 9 times out of 10, my heart is always right
Cheers and God Bless!
Comment from Steve
April 15, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Hey Kelley,
Nice post and I appreciate the honesty, but now I’m even more suspicious than I was before I read the post. LOL!
Really though, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but only just this once. ;0)
Comment from Davo
April 16, 2010 at 2:36 am
if ur going to blo the whistle dont come out half cocked, tell us who to avoid (not that it matters) and get on with it, these guys will do what the have to do and do it all over again.
this is the internet just like u (x) & all the other mr x’s who knows who who is ??
marketing is what it is all about through the dumbness of some or the clever intelligent physiological tactics that are used to fish people in weather it be colors or speech or wording the sales letters, we will be fooled. like the young man said have passion and the money will follow just don’t give up there r to many good people being abused and taken for granted, like myself. best of luck to everybody. just do ur research 1st.
Davo )
Comment from John Reed
April 17, 2010 at 7:58 am
After being an Internet Marketing Hobbyist for several years I am now taking it seriously to provide me with a living into our “Retirement”. I quickly recognised this business as like many others, undoubtedly populated in swathes by cut-throat, trample-on-anyone personalities who will sell their own grandmothers if it makes them a buck……. That’s a sad fact of human nature, many very unlovable characters do succeed in making money and getting to the tops of their trees. But we don’t ALL HAVE to be like that, and I’m heartened to read all the discussion above.
I continued reading items from the Rich Jerk because of the marketing tips I found in them – but I hated the style and the arrogance (assumed or otherwise) and the foul language. I obviously recognised the marketing ploy, but I do trust that this turn around is a genuine one. It may not be possible to polish a Turd, but it is possible to clean Crap off a Gem……
I’ll go with this latter viewpoint. The only bit actually that annoys me (and it annoys me that I’m aggravated by it too) is having the Bible quoted at me. Christian principles are fine Mike, I believe in them, but I have a very strong distrust of “Religion” per se. When I was a young man, some 46 years ago actually, I saw a slogan painted on a London Subway Wall – “Religion Kills”, with a Skull and Crossbones under it. Throughout the rest of my life so far that has only been proved true over and over again………. hence my dislike of anything that quotes it at me. 29 years in the Army, and 18 years as a civilian since, have not changed my mind over this….. but I too want to become a Marketer with Integrity.
I found all of this discussion fascinating, we are certainly a widely flung group in many, many ways. Good Luck with your new approach, at least in this business it IS possible to reach a huge number of people very quickly with your message. Conversely you then have a huge crowd watching to see if you succeed!!
All the best to both of you, I’ll be back to see what’s happening!
John O’York
Comment from Paige
May 5, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I bought one of your 10 bucks ebooks in the past…read through it…found the information outdated (I mean, Overture is long gone!) and didn’t agree with the upsell on hosting… But eventually, I understood that money is the root to all evil. Not that you were evil, but I received the shock of my life when someone called me on my cellphone and said: “Hi, this is XXX from the Rich Jerk, how are you?”
Until then, the “Rich Jerk” persona did not quite match the sincere phone call. I hung up immediately and switched off my cellphone for a couple of days…wondering what the heck was going on. Yes, it gets THAT freaky. It shows you that ANYONE out there, any of these money-minded internet marketers can call you up ANYTIME just to show you that they are watching you. I get you Kelly, I get it that you are brave enough to come out of your shell that you were hiding behind.
But still I don’t know… I’m still suspicious, your “coming out” may just as well be another ploy to market other stuff once again. It may just be another ploy to push all sorts of emotional hot buttons. And I’m still highly suspicious. I think it’s important that someone finds their OWN way to do things when it comes to marketing online.
I’m a straight-shooter in real life. I always say what I think, and that is why I have few friends in real life. Now, that doesn’t bother me a single bit. So why would I even care if people start dissing me online? Who cares? Create a new persona, and you’re good to go again. That’s why I’m still highly suspicious of you. Having a comfy group of people to fall back on (known as a “mastermind” group) is vital in creating more money. But you know out? Nothing is gonna last forever. A new breed of tech-savvy, more ruthless group of marketers are emerging. One day, the bad guys will be the ones that gets burnt. Google was the King for a long time, now it’s Facebook. One day you’re in, next day you’re out. Live with your conscience the only way you can. Don’t sell your soul to the devil for $…you’ll burn in hell when you die. There is no heaven or hell? Says who? Believe in what you’ve experienced and filter out the rest of the crap. You know best.
Comment from Danny Turner
May 6, 2010 at 6:33 am
followed a post on the WF to here
I remember reading some of your stuff – thought you were just a jerk (rich or not)
mmmmm …. good post .. pity there are so many who believe in magic bullets – cause while ever people buy it .. jerks will serve it up cheers
Danny
Comment from Buck
July 28, 2010 at 7:26 am
My reply to Mike and Kelly’s Response to my earlier post. It is embedded within the original remarks:
First, I want to give you two a public apology that you both deserve. I have been following several threads concerning your BTF and the new leaf you are turning over.
Through bits and pieces of comments you two have made and the results of the tests of BTF by Tiffany Dow, I have come to realize that several things swayed my criticism. First of all, I misunderstood what you meant by teaching your ‘Rich Jerk’ tactics. I assumed you were teaching the personality and the practice of abandoning your customers. I realize now is your marketing strategy instead. I also understand now that you are restricted about what you can say about Rich Jerk. Obviously, I conclude that there is some other kind of ownership or authority there. I could be wrong, but maybe that is why your identity was secret in the first place.
I apologize for the negative remarks. I made them before I had an understanding of what you were actually doing.
(Mike)
@Buck: There’s nothing that I’ve read more than the New Testament, and nothing I’ve learned more from. As in: I do everything in my power that I know of to follow Jesus Christ’s philosophy. So yes, I believe in Jesus Christ. Kelly can speak for himself, but I’ll tell you that when I (frequently) quote parables and share stories from the New Testament, he’s always a welcome, engaging and eager audience.
===> (Buck)
You have here, my personal (non-ads) email address. Feel free to email if you want to discuss the Bible. I am open to discussion with anyone willing to understand that sometimes we just have to agree to disagree at some points.
I don’t apologize for being cautious about your faith. It is healthy for anyone to be cautious about someone they don’t know in that situation. That being said, Based on what I have seen, I feel comfortable accepting your word about that now.
As far as your question about Bring the Fresh is concerned, I have to say that I reject your premise that if you go into a school that a teacher can tell you how long you will learn and how much money you will make. I spent tens of thousands of dollars collecting a history degree at James Madison University and it has made me zero money. When entrepreneurs start businesses, at least in America, their earnings are neither guaranteed, nor are they capped.
This may not sound satisfying to you but the trade off that we make when we quit a job to become an entrepreneur is that we no longer get to trade time directly for a guarantee of a set amount of money.
That said, there’s no reason for you to quit your job before you are making that comfortable income.
(Buck)
I have reluctantly (i.e. kicking and screaming all the way) come to the conclusion that I had a bad misconception in this regard. While there are some programs that should be able to be measured in a similar manor, because of the changes that keep occurring by Google, affiliate sites, etc., this marketing arena is too fluid for most absolutes.
(Mike)
And if you feel like you need some free training to get you started, then here’s one of the places to look:
http://kellyfelix.com/just-do-this/
(Buck)
I checked and it is moved to the member’s area. I’ll see if I can be a member after posting this.
Mike
This is Kelly’s post about his SEO method. He’s currently using it have gotten over 100,000 visitors to his site that he reveals in Bring the Fresh full disclosure absolutely free in the last 30-days. It took him about 3-months of planning to create that site from scratch, and then another 3-months for the traffic to really kick in.
Several of our Bring the Fresh customers and I have also used the same method in the last month to start getting rankings…
…For highly competitive terms…one of our customers just reported in our Yahoo Group how in the last 3-weeks he’s gotten a #3 ranking for a search term with 22,900,000 competing pages…and now he’s sitting right behind the Wall Street Journal and one of Google’s own pages eyeing the #1 slot. (I have several sites on the first page of Google for highly competitive terms, all that I started in the last 30-days, and I have disclosed all of them to our Bring the Fresh Full Disclosure customers. My cost for my sites has been the cost of server space and the cost of registering about a dozen domain names on GoDaddy.)
If you look at the “Just do this” post and say to yourself: “not for me” or if you just don’t get the right feeling about what we’re doing for *any* reason, then please HOLD OFF.
(Buck)
I will look at that material. SEO will fall into what I am in the process of doing. You will probably advise me to keep with what I am doing since I have been working hard at breaking the Raven habit… chasing shiny things. The previous plan I tried to follow was obviously black-hat, and what I am following now incorporates black-hat strategy. However, I it is flexible enough that I can use substitute it with white-hat strategy.
Mike
We’re not shutting down enrollment. This isn’t a scarcity based launch with a dealine. If you change your mind next week, next month, or next year, we’ll still be here. And in the meantime we plan to keep sharing new content, both inside of BTF, here and to our subscribers. So if you don’t buy now and then change your mind later, it’s no big deal.
Buck
LOL, You’ll never make money that way (tic).;) Actually, it is a welcome relief to see something without false scarcity, or even self-imposed scarcity. I understand some things have to have it, such as personal one-on-one coaching. There are only so many hours in a day.
Mike
In any learning situation there will be value the teacher provides, and value the student provides.
In Bring the Fresh, Kelly and I offer instruction, an over the shoulder approach where folks can see the actual business moves we’re currently making, and we offer a community and a culture built for encouraging success.
Our customers provide their own time, ingenuity, their own unique strengths and passion…and they mix with Kelly and I to make up what is turning into an extraordinary community in our Yahoo Group.
If you feel my answer is a “cop out” then I’d advise you not to join at this time because the reservations that you feel will make it so much more difficult for you to enjoy the value that we provide, and it will make it so much more of an uphill climb for you to provide the value required of you to build the business that you’ve talked about in your post.
Buck
I would not have been ready to accept this post as written at the time it was written. I don’t think you are copping out. It looks like you two are applying personal attention to your program rather than outsourcing it and walking away (dumping the customers). I have seen this so many times with other gurus since I criticized Kelly for using that tactic and then (I, wrongfully) criticizing him for teaching that tactic in BTF. I won’t name names, but I discovered three gurus I trusted because of their good material, only to find that they, too, dump their customers off to an outsourced group. I understand that you can’t afford to spend quality personal one-on-one time with every customer of your $30 product (hypothetical price), but you can afford to take an hour a week and address a few questions and concerns in a forum. Obviously, you are now doing at least that. I was just discovering that tactic being used by others when I first posted here. That was a sore-point for me.
I already said why I should not join your program right now. But it is due to my reservations. I have it on my list to follow up on when I reach that point in my current path.
Mike
Either way thank you, Buck, and than you to everyone who has helped kindle this extraordinary community that’s building around this Blog and around this whole Bring the Fresh situation!
Buck
You are welcome. Thank you for both opening the door and addressing my concerns.
I know you had to be pretty brave to open yourselves up on this forum, as well as on others, with BTF. It is hard to be transparent. I canned the idea of anonymity on the Internet when I first started in the early 90’s. As a result, I have to be transparent and honest. Unfortunately, I occasionally get that Chinese bug, what is is called? Ah, Huufontong. We call it “Foot in Mouth” here in the US.
I meant what I said, when I said it. But I was wrong to have said it without the knowledge to back it up. Now that I have the knowledge, I recognize that I was wrong in saying it. I apologize for having wronged the both of you.
Thank you
Buck
PS I will be posting a brief apology on my own site as well. (Yes, I read the NT, as well as the Old.
Pingback from My apology to Kelly Felix and Mike Long of Bring The Fresh | Live Off The Web
July 28, 2010 at 7:56 am
[...] In February of this year, Kelly Felix (the Rich Jerk) and Mike Long announced Bring The Fresh and confessed about what they (or was it just Kelly) with The Rich Jerk program and how Bring the Fresh would be different. (http://kellyfelix.com/just-thoughts/) [...]
Comment from Jennifer Lancey
February 22, 2010 at 4:22 pm
A friend of mine just emailed me one of your articles from a while back. I read that one a few more. Really enjoy your blog. Thanks